g741.org

outsider wrote: For less than $20.00 you can change the points and condensor with a screw driver and a feeler gage (and in a pinch you don't need to use the feeler gage) in less than 5 minutes.

Many a "shade-tree mechanic" has gapped his points and plugs using a book of paper matches for feeler guages. You gap the points with the cover and the plugs with a match. It won't be "on the money," but it's close enough that it'll get you going.

Robert Lantz wrote:No, I will change those together this time... Are any other issues I mentioned major red flags (12 volt wires, bad coil, old distributor, etc)???

I'd check and make sure when you have the ignition off that you don't have any power running to your coil distributor setup believe that's the No. 12 wire running to the coil... As they stated previously this will burn up points and switches do and can go bad from time to time...

Is your truck a 12volt conversion or are you running the 24volt distributor with some sort of Bubbafied 12volt wires on a water tight 24volt system...

This thread kinda grew legs a bit, but both sides are very passionate in regards to there M37 technology...
It's your M and it looks like right now your just trying to resolve the situation at hand. Both sides have good points... Myself I'm a points and condenser kind of guy and that's not because I'm obstinate it's because I enjoy the experience in maintaining the sytem...

I hope you get your situation resolved and maybe you can tell us a little more about your truck so they can get you pointed in the right direction...

I only said the things about servicability because I knew Cuz would promptly call me a liar if I said more. There are other benefits, and some of those are related to performance. If you were here, I could show you the 2 different systems in distributors on the test stand, you would have to be blind and deaf or throw in the towel in agreement. My desire however is to stay clear of confrontation here even if I can't share all the specifics about the good things the electronic module adds to the mix. I could call many references that would post here in its defense, but that also would cause conflict, so I'll just simply let it go.

Deleted due to double post.

Also make sure if you are using a 12V coil that it either has an internal resistor or that it has one in the positive feed line going to the coil, as too much voltage getting to the coil will also burn the points out early.

Another shade tree tip is that you can use a dollar bill to lightly clean the points. Just gently seperate the points, insert a corner of the bill, let points close on the bill, remove the bill, repeat if necessary.
Steve

I remember my Dad doing that with a Dollar bill, to his points on his 1962 Mercury meteor S-33 when I was a kid.. I forgot all about him doing that till you mention it..lol

My take on this debate is as follows. Points are basic and unless the condenser cooks a on road fix can be done. (BTW I prefer a white business card for a quick point cleaning) I also agree that there probably isn't much if any increase in HP, torque or ease in starting if the distributer shaft is tight. But thats on the day the points are installed and the dwell and timing are set. After that as the rubbing block wears your gap, dwell, and timing changes. Now the PerTronix unit on the other hand holds it's tune. Add to that what Charles mentioned about the shaft no longer having the side load on it by the points pressure. I have installed PerTronix units on a number of vehicles and never had a problem, right down to a 62 P1800 Volvo that I put about 300K on after the unit went in. But even then since I commuted with it I carried the points and other parts in case I had to change back while on the road, never had to. I did have problems years ago with (if I remember right) a Mallory unit which was photo activated instead of the use of magnets like PerTronix. Last Christmas my Son gave me the MV-161 and I will fit it into a dizzy I have that I'll rebuild once I figure out a neat way to delete the filter. JMHO

Since we discovered sometime ago that in some distributors the cap and module interfered with each other when the top cover was torqued, it was possible to crack the module housing unless the cap got a slight modification. We added a separate sheet to our installation instructions warning of this possibility and explaining the needed modification, yet a few people have still cracked their new units. It does not apply to all units as in some distributors it was not a problem. Pertronix was made aware of this possibility, but as always in these types of situations, it seems the wheels of progress turn slowly. Anyway, in a new order that came in last week, the design has been changed to eliminate this interference issue. The new units now come already attached to an aluminum backing plate. This lowers the module when installed below the interference zone. Installation is easier as you simply remove 2 screws and spring clips, lift out the original backing plate, install the new plate, secure it using the spring clips and screws, hook up the wires and the installation is complete. This also makes it easier for the ones who want to carry a back up set of points and condenser as they can simply install the components onto the original plate and carry it in the glove box. This is the 2nd time Pertronix has made a design change for us since we have been a vendor of their products. It doesn't happen over night, but they do listen and correct legitimate issues. I want to do an installation tomorrow myself just to double check that all is on go before shipping any of the new units out. Upon initial inspection, it looks like the interference issue is solved, I'll know for sure tomorrow.

Wayne64 wrote:My take on this debate is as follows. Points are basic and unless the condenser cooks a on road fix can be done. (BTW I prefer a white business card for a quick point cleaning) I also agree that there probably isn't much if any increase in HP, torque or ease in starting if the distributer shaft is tight. But thats on the day the points are installed and the dwell and timing are set. After that as the rubbing block wears your gap, dwell, and timing changes. Now the PerTronix unit on the other hand holds it's tune. Add to that what Charles mentioned about the shaft no longer having the side load on it by the points pressure. I have installed PerTronix units on a number of vehicles and never had a problem, right down to a 62 P1800 Volvo that I put about 300K on after the unit went in. But even then since I commuted with it I carried the points and other parts in case I had to change back while on the road, never had to. I did have problems years ago with (if I remember right) a Mallory unit which was photo activated instead of the use of magnets like PerTronix. Last Christmas my Son gave me the MV-161 and I will fit it into a dizzy I have that I'll rebuild once I figure out a neat way to delete the filter. JMHO

Eliminating the filter is no problem at all, give us a call.

If you want to keep the original connector on the distributor then you just eliminate the capacitor from the square plate inward and solder a wire directly to the pin in the middle of the remaining square plate.Just do a search here for "distributor capacitor". One of our members already posted a public response to your question. I'll post his photo of the original capacitor below the modified unit.
Bottom is original capacitor and above is the modified housing and the new wire soldered directly to the pin.

If you are not interested in keeping the original connector functional at the distributor then dis-assemble it and install a new wire from the switch Douglas connector (at the dash) to the + terminal on the coil. You could cheat and splice/solder a short add-on section near the distributor but if you aren't sure how old the original wire is then it's best to run a new wire all the way.

Wow did I ignite a hornets nest of debate uninentionally so sorry guys... I changed stuff out with all new cap, rotor, points, condensor and then I took a look at the actual wiring modifications. Two wires that were connected kept the rig from starting and there had been some modifications to install a heater that some additional wires ere added that were suspect also. I recrimped every terminal adding a drop of solder additionally and guess what? It runs great now! Took it to the swap meet this weekend and will take it up to the store in the morning for some eggs (Baby Steps). This eek will find me replacing some bulbs getting it ready for night driving...

cuz wrote:If you want to keep the original connector on the distributor then you just eliminate the capacitor from the square plate inward and solder a wire directly to the pin in the middle of the remaining square plate.Just do a search here for "distributor capacitor". One of our members already posted a public response to your question. I'll post his photo of the original capacitor below the modified unit.

29543270eSPTylibwB_ph.jpg

Bottom is original capacitor and above is the modified housing and the new wire soldered directly to the pin.

If you are not interested in keeping the original connector functional at the distributor then dis-assemble it and install a new wire from the switch Douglas connector (at the dash) to the + terminal on the coil. You could cheat and splice/solder a short add-on section near the distributor but if you aren't sure how old the original wire is then it's best to run a new wire all the way.

Is the capacitor actually required for normal operation?

The capacitor is not required, in fact your engine will run better without it and it is 1 less component to fail if eliminated. You would only need it if knocking down radio interference is a issue for you.

The photo of the elimination method above will work, but it wouldn't be the method I would use as it's another connection and another possibility for issues. I always run an uncut 14 ga. wire from the positive coil terminal straight through, no soldered connection. The attaching nut goes right back on and all looks exactly original. There will be a connector in the #12 lead a foot or so from the distributor that provides a disconnect point.

I installed a new module kit this morning. Takes care of the interference issue perfectly, not only did they lower the module deeper into the housing, they put it in a different location on the plate so it no longer falls beneath an inner cap screw boss. The wires are now already cut to length with correct end terminations installed, makes for a much more simple installation than ever before. Also got the invoice for our latest shipment this morning. Amazingly with the newer unit comes a cost reduction. Some of you may recall with the batch before this one, we had incurred a $10 cost increase. We are now able to sell these at the old price of $155 + $12 shipping and insurance or a total of $167. We'll keep the lower price tag in effect as long as we can.

Charles, since I no doubt have a non re-designed unit, and from what you have mentioned I have two questions. I'll bookmark this thread for when I have the time to do it up right. First question, after installing the module should I use molding clay to check the clearance between the inner cap to the module? Also while we are talking clearances what would you look for as a clearance between the bushings and the new shaft after reaming? And thank you for all your valuable input.