M37 Registry Count 1085 Trucks Registered!
g741.org
M37 Discussion Forum
M37 Registry
Latest Entry


1953 M37
Ontario

Home Pics Parts list Production dates Production changes Contract numbers Tech Manuals Specs MilSpec Docs Links

Re: engine dies after 3 min

Discuss fixes, upgrades and modifications to your M37

Moderators: Cal_Gary, T. Highway, nivek, robi, Monkey Man

Re: engine dies after 3 min

Postby markkish79 » Wed Dec 06, 2017 1:54 pm

I have a 1955 CDN M43 with the 251 in it. Shes been running great until one day it shut off while driving home from a parade. The engine starts up great, then heats up for about 2 or 3 min then it revs up high and shuts off. Then it starts right back up after 30 sec then only runs for about 30 sec. Now I did take off the mechanical fuel pump and added a 24 v electric pump with a large after market fuel filter. Both in line and at the rear next to the tank. Along with a regulator at the carb. This mod has been running fine though for three months after installing, and even ran for two hours straight right before this happened. I brought this up a few months ago and could get any idea from this site. So I took some time to figure it out and now here I am again bothering everyone again with this mystery. I changed coil, points, and cap. Rebuilt 2 carburetors, changed fuel cap and even checked for vac leak around carb and manifold. I did a vac gauge check and I have been getting the needle bounce at 14 to 15. Then when it revs up before shutting off again it climbs to 16-17. Does anyone have any ideas before I have to rebuild the whole engine? The revving up before shut off has to be the key here. Thanks , Mark.
markkish79
PVT
PVT
 
Posts: 23
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2016 1:56 pm

Re: engine dies after 3 min

Postby RMS » Wed Dec 06, 2017 3:38 pm

hi mark.

Im going to say its all carburation. as she heats up the required air fuel ratio changes. the increase in speed could be from leanout.

most likely the low speed system. check and clean the low speed jet, economizer and air bleed bypass.

if you play with the choke I bet you can get her to keep running. try leaving the choke pulled out about 1/2in to 3/4 inch. if she keeps running the problem is in the low speed system. if you rebuilt your carb with a ETW1 kit (us 230) you will find that some of the jet orifices are smaller than the stock jets from the 251 canadian e9-d1 carb.
Image
.............................. use it ...............
User avatar
RMS
MSGT
MSGT
 
Posts: 795
Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2012 2:18 pm
Location: Richmond BC Canada

Re: engine dies after 3 min

Postby markkish79 » Wed Dec 06, 2017 4:03 pm

I never thought about the carb being different. I did rebuild it with the etw1 kit, but that's the carb that was on it. It looks just like the etw1 carb for the m37, and it says ball and ball on it. I have not seen the CDN model carb , I didn't realize they used something other then the etw. The thing is I rebuilt the one that was working on it, then I rebuilt another one and it still does the same thing. Unless I'm doing something wrong on the rebuild all together and screwed up both etw1 carbs. I just cleaned them inside and out and replaced all parts from the kit. I have tried to play with the carb to keep it running, and about a month ago it would cause it to just stay alive for another few sec. Although now today the carb had no effect, and its dying faster at about 10 sec after every start up.
markkish79
PVT
PVT
 
Posts: 23
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2016 1:56 pm

Re: engine dies after 3 min

Postby rickf » Wed Dec 06, 2017 4:22 pm

Have you tried putting a vacuum gauge teed into the fuel line before the tank to see if you are drawing a vacuum? You could have an obstruction at the pickup in the tank.
1953 M37
1964 M151A1
1967 M416
1984 M1008
4/1952 M100
12/1952 M100 gone
rickf
CPL
CPL
 
Posts: 147
Joined: Sun May 21, 2017 5:50 am

Re: engine dies after 3 min

Postby markkish79 » Wed Dec 06, 2017 4:43 pm

I checked that and its clear , plus I'm watching the clear filter at the carb end and the fuel is constantly going to the carb. I can't see any interruption of fuel. I did try the choke again just now and when it revs up to die I pull the choke all the way out and smash the gas peddle down and she stays alive longer. I do that about 8 times and she stays on then eventually doesn't work anymore and dies.
markkish79
PVT
PVT
 
Posts: 23
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2016 1:56 pm

Re: engine dies after 3 min

Postby markkish79 » Wed Dec 06, 2017 4:46 pm

Took off the fuel reg and its still doing it.
markkish79
PVT
PVT
 
Posts: 23
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2016 1:56 pm

Re: engine dies after 3 min

Postby RMS » Wed Dec 06, 2017 4:55 pm

sounds like the carb

the canadian carter ball and ball part # e9-d1 looks identical to the american etw1. the only difference is the venture diameter, throttle plate diameter and jet orifices.


230ci vs 251ci = 21ci

the dark green truck is acting the same way but I am able to keep her running with a tiny bit of choke. but it has to be just in the right spot. too little and she flashes out too much and she bogs chokes and dies.
Image
.............................. use it ...............
User avatar
RMS
MSGT
MSGT
 
Posts: 795
Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2012 2:18 pm
Location: Richmond BC Canada

Re: engine dies after 3 min

Postby Marmalute » Wed Dec 06, 2017 5:13 pm

Just curious:
What do the spark plugs look like?
Sooty indicating too much fuel or bad spark,
Or
Very light (clean looking) indicating insufficient fuel.
Pull out a few plugs and see what they say.
Marmalute
PVT
PVT
 
Posts: 35
Joined: Sun May 01, 2016 11:45 am

Re: engine dies after 3 min

Postby jim lee » Wed Dec 06, 2017 5:20 pm

Before going nuts, try running it from a Jerry can sitting on your fender with just a tube siphoning gas into your carb.

What happens when you try that?

-jim lee
jim lee
SSGT
SSGT
 
Posts: 404
Joined: Sat Oct 13, 2012 6:51 pm
Location: Anacortes, WA

Re: engine dies after 3 min

Postby markkish79 » Wed Dec 06, 2017 5:50 pm

RMS wrote:sounds like the carb

the canadian carter ball and ball part # e9-d1 looks identical to the american etw1. the only difference is the venture diameter, throttle plate diameter and jet orifices.


230ci vs 251ci = 21ci

the dark green truck is acting the same way but I am able to keep her running with a tiny bit of choke. but it has to be just in the right spot. too little and she flashes out too much and she bogs chokes and dies.


So if I used the etw1 parts kit on the CDN model carb, it would cause some issues and or not work ? The thing is this started before I changed out anything on the carb. I did a parade in MT Vernon OH last year and it was a hot day. I let her run and sit parked for 2 hours, then drove her home. Then the next day this began. I know that doesn't tell you much but that was the conditions. Thats how long I have been trying to figure this thing out. I have pulled the plugs and cyl #1 and three were black and gunked up, the rest were fine. I ddon't think I'm getting the best spark out of the plugs because its a very small blueish spark if that matters. What happens when the heat riser flap in the manifold fails? I don't have any knowledge on that component yet. So I'm not sure if that has anything to do with it.
markkish79
PVT
PVT
 
Posts: 23
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2016 1:56 pm

Re: engine dies after 3 min

Postby markkish79 » Wed Dec 06, 2017 6:10 pm

jim lee wrote:Before going nuts, try running it from a Jerry can sitting on your fender with just a tube siphoning gas into your carb.

What happens when you try that?

-jim lee

I'll have to try that tomorrow and see what happens. Do I just suck on on end of the hose from the jerry can to start the vac then plug it into the carb line? Is that enough to fill the carb continuously, because I don't have the mechanical fuel pump on it anymore? I put a plate in place of the pump and put an elec 24v in line pump on next to my tank. If there is a crack in the brazing around my fuel pick up connection on the tank, or stripped out threads on my vent connection line next to the pick up would that cause an issue at all?
markkish79
PVT
PVT
 
Posts: 23
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2016 1:56 pm

Re: engine dies after 3 min

Postby jim lee » Thu Dec 07, 2017 12:09 am

The idea is to make it as simple as possible. I'd just plumb a flexible hose from the Jerry tank to the carb. (Get a hose barb to screw into your carb) Once you are set up, cover the Jerry tank hole as much as possible and slightly blow your air hose in there to build enough pressure to start the siphon. CAREFUL! It should only take a little bit of a puff. Or you could just do it by mouth if you're more comfortable with doing it that way. Then, once its started, pull out the air line and just let it siphon. The float valve should regulate it.

Fire it up and see how long it idles for.

If it runs fine? The issue is between the carb & the gas tank.
If it still has the problem? The issue is with your carb/engine.

-jim lee
jim lee
SSGT
SSGT
 
Posts: 404
Joined: Sat Oct 13, 2012 6:51 pm
Location: Anacortes, WA

Re: engine dies after 3 min

Postby just me » Thu Dec 07, 2017 6:27 am

When my fuel pumped pivot failed last year, I drove it home with an outboard motor tank strapped to the hood. The squeeze ball primed it and then siphon and gravity took over.
I really don't like three dirty and three clean plugs. That is an odd combination. It is also something I would look at closely. Have you tried spraying carb cleaner around the base of the carb AND the intake manifold to block yet? Have you checked the valve adjustment?
Compression test?
Leakdown test cold and then hot?
Troubleshooting over the internet isn't easy. You are going to have to start at square one and check everything. That doesn't mean you need to replace everything. Just make sure it is working to factory specs. Suck, squeeze, bang, blow. You need fuel/air in the right amount, ignition at the correct time and compression for that to happen.
"It may be ugly, but at least it is slow!"
just me
MSGT
MSGT
 
Posts: 817
Joined: Fri Nov 28, 2014 4:25 pm

Re: engine dies after 3 min

Postby rickf » Thu Dec 07, 2017 7:33 am

What you are describing is an empty fuel bowl. One that is eventually filling back up but very slowly. It sounds like the float drop is restricted and not letting enough gas into the bowl to supply the engine while it is running. This could be verified by loosening the float drain and as soon as the engine dies quickly unscrew the drain and see if any gas comes out. I will bet very little. Then have someone crank it while you have the plug out with a can under it and see if you get a lot of gas or just a dribble. This will tell you if it is the inlet circuit if the carb. Actually, you have an electric pump, just turn on the pump and you should get a lot of gas pretty quickly out of the bowl drain. If you just get a little dribble then there is an issue with getting gas into the carb. Filter, inlet needle, restricted float.
1953 M37
1964 M151A1
1967 M416
1984 M1008
4/1952 M100
12/1952 M100 gone
rickf
CPL
CPL
 
Posts: 147
Joined: Sun May 21, 2017 5:50 am

Re: engine dies after 3 min

Postby just me » Thu Dec 07, 2017 12:47 pm

To expand on that last post, until I replaced the entire fuel line from tank to pump, I had a horrible restriction from the crud in the line. You may be experiencing something similar. (Or eggs in the gas tank)
"It may be ugly, but at least it is slow!"
just me
MSGT
MSGT
 
Posts: 817
Joined: Fri Nov 28, 2014 4:25 pm

Next

Return to Technical group

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron