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Timing pointer on 230 flat head six engine missing

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Timing pointer on 230 flat head six engine missing

Postby outpostm37 » Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:21 pm

I have seen pics of the timing pointer for the flat head 6. Do these bolt on or were they a welded tab on the inside of the cover?
Vehicle starts and runs decent. Need to get one installed to fine tune the timing.
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Re: Timing pointer on 230 flat head six engine missing

Postby Marmalute » Fri Jan 12, 2018 2:58 pm

They were spot welded on. When they go missing, you can usually locate the place where it was welded and from the “footprint”, you can pretty well determine the center line of the pointer. It is then possible to scribe or paint a mark with which you can time/ check timing. These covers are available or I suppose you could even weld another pointer back in place.
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Re: Timing pointer on 230 flat head six engine missing

Postby Marmalute » Fri Jan 12, 2018 3:08 pm

One of my M37s was missing the timing pointer, and interestingly, I found it on the cross member beneath the radiator. So I could weld it back on, but more likely, I’ll put another cover on it with a pointer when I do some engine upgrades in the spring.
Check around, your lost pointer may be close by!
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Re: Timing pointer on 230 flat head six engine missing

Postby NAM VET » Sat Jan 13, 2018 3:31 am

As above members have noted, the pointer is spot welded on the outside of the timing cover. Here is a picture of mine. By the way, when I was reassembling my motor, rotating the crank properly, I used a dial indicator to determine precise TDC on the #1 piston, and compared that to the zero timing engraving on the pulley. My mark was 2 degrees advanced from true TDC, so I put a dab of red paint on true TDC on the pulley, and used my red mark at true TDC to time my motor. By the way, when I first started it after my rebuild, it fired right up and seemed to run fine, then when I checked the timing, using the plug adaptor, it was 16 degrees advanced. I was unable to use the fine timing bolt (I actually put in an ARP stainless stud into the block, much easier to start the locking nut on the stud) to get my motor back to 4 degrees Before TDC, and had to move the coarse adjustment under the distributor to get it it where I could rotate my distributor to get it set to spec. I think a prior rebuild had mistimed the oil pump and and just used the coarse adjustment to compensate for being off one oil pump gear. I had installed a new pump, and at first was dismayed to think I had mistimed my oil pump's insertion, (using Charles T's description of how to set the pump's gear, with a straight edge exactly, and rotate the gear precisely one tooth turn.). By the way, you can look down your distributor's hole in the block, and see if the offset pump slot is exactly horizontal for the tang on the dizzy to slip into. OEM new timing covers are inexpensive to buy. I just cleaned mine up and reused it. Centering the cover on the crank is not so easy. By the way, there is discussion here about using a newer oil seal than the one that comes in the gasket kit, i ordered it from my local parts store. Plus I used some gasket sealer in addition to the paper gasket on the timing cover. When I put the square key in the crank's slot I froze it and then heated the pulley to make it easier to tap on. You have to put the key on before you tap on the pulley. I don't think you could get the key in after installing the pulley.

[url][url=https://postimg.org/image/5981xxiqd/]Image[/url][/url]
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Re: Timing pointer on 230 flat head six engine missing

Postby MSeriesRebuild » Mon Feb 05, 2018 4:29 pm

We have a jig that we made for precisely locating the pointer position on the cover. This way we can fab new pointers and install them precisely on covers that do not have pointers any longer. We see a fair amount that don't have pointers.
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Re: Timing pointer on 230 flat head six engine missing

Postby outpostm37 » Wed Mar 07, 2018 7:01 pm

Any chance you have measurements you could share so I could get close with a pointer?
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Re: Timing pointer on 230 flat head six engine missing

Postby jim lee » Wed Mar 07, 2018 11:35 pm

I'm thinking its pretty much straight up from the crank center. At least that's how mine looked.

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Re: Timing pointer on 230 flat head six engine missing

Postby MSeriesRebuild » Thu Mar 08, 2018 3:33 am

outpostm37 wrote:Any chance you have measurements you could share so I could get close with a pointer?


Close is no good, it must be RIGHT ON or basically it's no good. As I said we have made a jig so that we are able to locate the exact point on the cover and weld on a new pointer. I don't know of any other way to do it and know it's right where it should be.
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Re: Timing pointer on 230 flat head six engine missing

Postby Elwood » Thu Mar 08, 2018 3:56 am

outpostm37 wrote:Any chance you have measurements you could share so I could get close with a pointer?


NOS timing covers are still available from Midwest Military: http://store.midwestmilitary.com/M37-Military-Vehicle-Engine-Parts-s/1833.htm
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Re: Timing pointer on 230 flat head six engine missing

Postby MSeriesRebuild » Thu Mar 08, 2018 5:59 am

Elwood wrote:
outpostm37 wrote:Any chance you have measurements you could share so I could get close with a pointer?


NOS timing covers are still available from Midwest Military: http://store.midwestmilitary.com/M37-Military-Vehicle-Engine-Parts-s/1833.htm


Obtaining a new cover is your best option if you have no tooling to relocate a pointer to absolute correctness.
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Re: Timing pointer on 230 flat head six engine missing

Postby NAM VET » Thu Mar 08, 2018 1:19 pm

If your motor is up and running, I imagine pulling so much off the front of the motor to put on a new timing cover sounds like a whole lot of work. A tough place to be in I am sure. Is there a way to turn the motor to TDC, would it be easier to pull the head off and use a dial indicator than pulling all that stuff of the front of the motor? A way to put a scope down the spark plug hole and peek at the piston? A tiny mirror maybe? Can you see some sort of weld mark on the timing cover? Buy a NOS or used timing cover, and match it that? Just trying to think this thru.....

Let us know how you get this resolved.

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Re: Timing pointer on 230 flat head six engine missing

Postby just me » Thu Mar 08, 2018 1:50 pm

Pull the inspection plug on number 6 and very carefully locate TDC. It will take a dial indicator and stand at the very minimum. Locate your pointer accurately over the mark on the front pulley and tack into place. Make any minor adjustment and put a bead of weld on it.
You will find removing the radiator to be of immense help in this job.
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Re: Timing pointer on 230 flat head six engine missing

Postby NAM VET » Thu Mar 08, 2018 5:39 pm

here, not expensive to get one of these.

[url][url=https://postimg.org/image/jo1kwjncl/]Image[/url][/url]
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Re: Timing pointer on 230 flat head six engine missing

Postby outpostm37 » Sun Mar 11, 2018 5:51 pm

NAM VET wrote:If your motor is up and running, I imagine pulling so much off the front of the motor to put on a new timing cover sounds like a whole lot of work. A tough place to be in I am sure. Is there a way to turn the motor to TDC, would it be easier to pull the head off and use a dial indicator than pulling all that stuff of the front of the motor? A way to put a scope down the spark plug hole and peek at the piston? A tiny mirror maybe? Can you see some sort of weld mark on the timing cover? Buy a NOS or used timing cover, and match it that? Just trying to think this thru.....

Let us know how you get this resolved.

NV

The engine does run. cranking compression is low at about 100 psi, all cylinders. No blue smoke or oily spark plugs.
I have several dial indicator gauges that will work for this purpose. So why not just measure the TDC from the #1 cylinder at the spark plug hole? Easier to get at, not so far back in the engine bay. #1 & #6 are at TDC at the same position of the crankshaft. I will turn the engine by hand slowly clockwise from the front, multiple times to verify the TDC reading. I have a socket and long breaker bar that works well for this purpose. Not looking to remove so much hardware to get at the front of the engine. My MIG should be able to tack a pointer in place from the under side.
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Re: Timing pointer on 230 flat head six engine missing

Postby just me » Sun Mar 11, 2018 5:59 pm

Well, since you can't access the pistons from the spark plug holes, you are limited to using the plug on the no6 cylinder provided for the purpose.
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