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Differential tools availability?

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Differential tools availability?

Postby 06boblee » Sat Aug 05, 2017 8:30 am

Are the side bearing adjustment tool and spider gear case tool ( 41-W-3724-130, 41-W-3724-100) available? I could find no listings for these. All gone?
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Re: Differential tools availability?

Postby Tom P » Sat Aug 05, 2017 2:21 pm

Not that I'm aware of. Might get lucky at a swap meet or the like.

You will have to fabricate any specialized tools needed.

That's what us that have worked on the diff's have done.

Bob Stahl (Veteran Vehicles ) had some of the pinion bearing press plate's
At one time. Not sure if he has any left.

Also some vendors might have the pinion yoke/flange holder fro removing the
Pinion Nut.

Good Luck
Tom
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Re: Differential tools availability?

Postby mg1978 » Sat Aug 05, 2017 9:51 pm

Miller Specialty Tools made a lot of these tools. They had different part numbers when sold to the general public. They still show up on E-bay from time to time. I know the big spanner wrench to hold the pinion yoke flange is still available. I will try to look up the Miller part numbers and post them in a few days.
Bob Stahl did have the press plate the last time I talked to him. The push Puller tool shown in the Army repair manuals is still being made by OTC.
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Re: Differential tools availability?

Postby mg1978 » Sat Aug 05, 2017 10:47 pm

Another option is to have some of these tools made again. Advance Tool Company in Mancelona, Michigan was an original Government supplier for a lot of the tools for the Dodge M-37. They are a machine shop and made the tools per original specs. William "Bill" Mcgillivray is the owner. His dad started the company many years ago and they still have some old stock items left. Bill can look up tools if you can give him the National stock number. He does not have the old Army Ordnance part numbers that start with a letter. Bill is 68 and semi retired but will still make new items if he has the original production drawings and specs on file. He made the large 4 prong spanner socket for me for the differential side bearings and also the pinion seal puller that you see in the Army repair manuals. It's not cheap to have them made but if you want them he can help. Bill is really a nice guy and the quality was good on his tools. I plan on having a few more items made in the future if he has the production drawings. Also he did mention that if several people ordered the same tool such as the big sockets he could make them a little cheaper. You can E-mail Bill at atcmancelona@yahoo.com tell him that Mark sent you.

Regards,
Mark G.
From Texas
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Re: Differential tools availability?

Postby mg1978 » Sun Aug 06, 2017 2:00 am

Speaking of tools for the Dodge M-37, If anyone has any of the "Special Shop Tools" for the Dodge M-37 and you don't need them anymore I am interested in buying them. I'm not looking for common standard wrenches or tools. I'm looking for the special tools that were for the Dodge M-37. These could be sockets, seal or bearing pullers you name it for the engine, transmission or differential. I hate that as we all get older a lot of these tools are getting lost forever. I am trying to collect as many as I can as the right tool makes the job a lot easier. Shoot me a PM if you have anything you don't need anymore.

Thanks,
Mark G.
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Re: Differential tools availability?

Postby Elwood » Sun Aug 06, 2017 4:14 am

mg1978 wrote:Another option is to have some of these tools made again. Advance Tool Company in Mancelona, Michigan was an original Government supplier for a lot of the tools for the Dodge M-37. They are a machine shop and made the tools per original specs. William "Bill" Mcgillivray is the owner. His dad started the company many years ago and they still have some old stock items left. Bill can look up tools if you can give him the National stock number. He does not have the old Army Ordnance part numbers that start with a letter. Bill is 68 and semi retired but will still make new items if he has the original production drawings and specs on file. He made the large 4 prong spanner socket for me for the differential side bearings and also the pinion seal puller that you see in the Army repair manuals. It's not cheap to have them made but if you want them he can help. Bill is really a nice guy and the quality was good on his tools. I plan on having a few more items made in the future if he has the production drawings. Also he did mention that if several people ordered the same tool such as the big sockets he could make them a little cheaper. You can E-mail Bill at atcmancelona@yahoo.com tell him that Mark sent you.

Regards,
Mark G.
From Texas

I drive through Mancelona once or twice each month, and wondered what that building was used for; it's clearly an old industrial facility of some sort, and unlike much of Mancelona's manufacturing base, it hasn't been abandoned or torn down. But there's no signage, so I never could figure out what it was. Now I know. Thanks.

Have you been able to cross reference the "41-" tool lists from our G-741 shop manuals with the National Stock Numbers?

I've been collecting the old specialty tools as well, but they're not easy to find. I did buy a differential bearing cap spreader gage (41-G-17-800) a few years back, but a large inside micrometer of the appropriate size range could be substituted.
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Re: Differential tools availability?

Postby Elwood » Sun Aug 06, 2017 4:19 am

mg1978 wrote:Miller Specialty Tools made a lot of these tools. They had different part numbers when sold to the general public. They still show up on E-bay from time to time. I know the big spanner wrench to hold the pinion yoke flange is still available. I will try to look up the Miller part numbers and post them in a few days.
Bob Stahl did have the press plate the last time I talked to him. The push Puller tool shown in the Army repair manuals is still being made by OTC.
Mark G.

Having a copy of an old Miller tool catalog has been helpful in identifying which civilian tools apply to our trucks, and in finding them under their civilian numbers. A copy of the 1956 edition was posted online by the Imperial Club: http://imperialclub.org/Repair/Lit/1956_Miller_Tool/Page000.htm.
“When a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, IT IS THEIR RIGHT, IT IS THEIR DUTY, TO THROW OFF SUCH GOVERNMENT...” -Declaration of Independence, 1776
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Re: Differential tools availability?

Postby mg1978 » Sun Aug 06, 2017 4:44 pm

Elwood I do have some of the National stock numbers for "some" of the old tools. But not all of them. Some of the new numbers are in the 34P manual. Some I just picked up over the years. I have never found a complete list but I am still looking. I'm working nights right now and don't have any of my lists or manuals with me. If you send me your E-mail I will try to scan what I have and send it back to you. You are welcome to post it here if you want. It will be until Friday or Saturday before I can get this stuff rounded up and posted. By the way I have been looking for that spread gage for a long time. I would like some pictures and measurements of it if you don't mind. Also who made it. I always thought it was made by Starrett but they could not find any records of making it.

Take care,
Mark G.
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Re: Differential tools availability?

Postby Elwood » Sun Aug 06, 2017 4:53 pm

Thanks, Mark. I started a spreadsheet of tool cross references, but can't seem to find it at the moment. I also have a military-to-civilian cross reference list of Carter Carburetor Co. tools that was sent to me by one of the carb specialty shops.

I'll take some photos of the differential spread gage when I'm at my shop. I don't recall if there's a manufacturer name on it, but the micrometer didn't look like a Starrett product to me.
“When a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, IT IS THEIR RIGHT, IT IS THEIR DUTY, TO THROW OFF SUCH GOVERNMENT...” -Declaration of Independence, 1776
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Re: Differential tools availability?

Postby Elwood » Mon Aug 07, 2017 4:20 pm

Some photos of the differential spread gage:

Image

Image

The frame was sort of a grayish color when I bought it, but after I bead blasted it and primed it, I wanted something brighter.

The wooden case is not original, but I prefer to keep my measuring instruments in wood boxes. :)

The micrometer was made by J. T. Slocomb & Co. of Providence, Rhode Island. Not sure about the frame or the anvil. The frame is a fairly rough casting, with a faintly visible "M" on the web below the micrometer.

I forgot to take some measurements of it, but I'll get those tomorrow.
“When a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, IT IS THEIR RIGHT, IT IS THEIR DUTY, TO THROW OFF SUCH GOVERNMENT...” -Declaration of Independence, 1776
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Re: Differential tools availability?

Postby mg1978 » Fri Aug 11, 2017 8:35 pm

Hi Elwood, Thanks for the pictures. I have been looking for one of these forever. At least now I have seen one. Getting back to the newer National Stock Numbers for the Special Tools I found a lot of them in TM 9-2320-212-34P This is a newer Army Technical Manual printed in April 1972. It has 4 pages of Tool pictures starting on page 256, 257, 258 and 259. The Tool list and Description starts on page 252 and goes to page 255. Tools are listed by Their Federal Stock Number which replaced the old Army Ordnance numbers which started with a letter. For example the big three prong socket for removing the differential case cap was 41-W-3724-100. The newer Federal Stock Number is 5120-473-7789. (listed on page 252.) Now to confuse things further The Federal Stock Numbers have been changed to the latest National Stock Number system and is also used by NATO members. It is easy to change Federal Stock Numbers to National Stock Numbers by adding two zeros after the first 4 numbers on the Federal Stock Numbers. As an example the socket 41-W-3724-100 changed to Federal Stock Number 5120-473-7789. Now add 2 zeros and it becomes National Stock Number 5120-00-473-7789. This is the most current numbering system in use that I am aware of. Items or tools can be ordered from any NSN supplier using this system if the tool is still being made and not discontinued. One more note is that Miller Specialty Tools of Detroit Michigan made most of the special tools for Dodge and Chrysler. They also had a civilian retail numbering system for Auto parts dealers and suppliers. Most of these tools started with a letter C followed by numbers or DD followed by numbers. I also have an old Miller Special Tool catalog from 1941 with pictures and part numbers that helps me find tools. The later catalog from 1956 that you posted the link to is very good and has more tools for our M-37's. Now you know most everything I know. I hope this helps everyone on the site looking for tools. I have a few other items and notes and will try to scan them and send them to you. Still need a little more time to find everything.
Take care,
Mark G.
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Re: Differential tools availability?

Postby Elwood » Thu Aug 17, 2017 11:32 am

mg1978 wrote:...By the way I have been looking for that spread gage for a long time. I would like some pictures and measurements of it if you don't mind.
Take care,
Mark G.

Mark, sorry, I forgot about posting the measurements for the differential spread gage.

Frame width = 15-1/2"
Frame height = 8-1/2"
Frame thickness = 1/2"
Anvil length = 5-7/8"
Anvil diameter = 1/2"
Thimble range = 1.000"

If you need any other dimensions or photos, just let me know.
“When a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, IT IS THEIR RIGHT, IT IS THEIR DUTY, TO THROW OFF SUCH GOVERNMENT...” -Declaration of Independence, 1776
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Re: Differential tools availability?

Postby mg1978 » Fri Aug 18, 2017 1:12 pm

Thanks John (Elwood), It looks like any good large outside micrometer close to this size should work fine. I have never worked on the Differentials and was not sure of the size of micrometer needed. The photos were very nice along with the measurements.
Thanks,
Mark G.
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Re: Differential tools availability?

Postby Elwood » Fri Aug 18, 2017 4:00 pm

mg1978 wrote:Thanks John (Elwood), It looks like any good large outside micrometer close to this size should work fine. I have never worked on the Differentials and was not sure of the size of micrometer needed. The photos were very nice along with the measurements.
Thanks,
Mark G.

Mark, after reading your post, I realized I should have measured the minimum and maximum opening of the gage, and posted those figures to give you an idea of the micrometers needed to replicate this tool. I'll measure that next time I'm at my shop, along with the dimensions on the differential (I have a complete third member lying around, so it shouldn't be too difficult).
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